In this episode of Career Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Dawn Rasmussen, a certified resume writer and career management expert. They discuss the evolving job market, the importance of transferable skills, and strategies for navigating career transitions. Dawn shares insights on the challenges faced by job seekers, especially in the tech industry, and emphasizes the need for continuous professional development. The conversation also touches on the impact of AI on job searching and the unique challenges faced by older job seekers. Listeners gain valuable tips on how to effectively market themselves and adapt to the changing landscape of work.
In this episode of Career Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Dawn Rasmussen, a certified resume writer and career management expert. They discuss the evolving job market, the importance of transferable skills, and strategies for navigating career transitions. Dawn shares insights on the challenges faced by job seekers, especially in the tech industry, and emphasizes the need for continuous professional development. The conversation also touches on the impact of AI on job searching and the unique challenges faced by older job seekers. Listeners gain valuable tips on how to effectively market themselves and adapt to the changing landscape of work.
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Michael Bernzweig (00:01.365)
Are you ready to transform your career and break into the tech industry, even without traditional experience or degrees? Looking for an affordable, practical path to launch your professional journey?
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I'd like to welcome everyone to this week's edition of the Career Spotlight. My name is Michael Bernzweig. I'm your host and the founder of Software Oasis. This week, we're being joined live by Dawn Rasmussen. She's a certified resume writer, career management evangelist, and the president of Pathfinder Writing and Career Services. So with that, Dawn, welcome to the podcast.
Dawn Rasmussen (00:27.17)
Thanks for having me, Michael. I'm looking forward to chatting with you.
Michael Bernzweig (00:30.889)
Yeah, absolutely. And I can tell from some of the questions that came in from the audience that we definitely have a group of interested individuals to hear about our conversation today. So for anyone that may not be familiar with either yourself or Pathfinder writing, can you share a little bit with us of your journey kind of getting to where you are and a little bit about what's going on over there at Pathfinder writing?
Dawn Rasmussen (01:00.096)
my gosh. Well, I think like most of us, everybody, we've had sort of a maybe a jagged, lots of turns on the road of getting to where we are today. And so I started out actually in the hospitality industry. And then from there, I ended up involved with the trade association.
School to career program and so that kind of got me in touch with the HR side of things and then from there we had to reorg and then I started my own business and because it was just sort of a natural segue into you know from working from HR and connecting to people to actually Helping out with resumes and career management topics So I do a lot of coaching and for me I thrive on people who are maybe making a transition from one field to another
Maybe they want to get into a new, completely different career field. And it's kind of hard sometimes. So there are some steps that are really helpful to get from point A to point B. might not be able to do the whole thing all in one jump, but it's good to know what are those stepping tones.
Michael Bernzweig (01:55.745)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (02:06.283)
Yeah, and I think a lot of times just having the guidance, the coaching, the direction from someone that's been there and done that and done this over the years time and time again to help different individuals get from where they are to where they want to get to makes things a whole lot easier. So are there like certain types of
journeys that you see come by your practice the most or is it a whole range of different journeys?
Dawn Rasmussen (02:44.886)
You know, I really pretty much work with everybody from, you know, someone just starting their career out to someone wanting to move up to the next level or people that have maybe wanted to shift from one field to another. Unfortunately, we're going through a period right now with a lot of people suddenly without jobs. so it helping people kind of hit the ground running. It's pretty shocking when you get laid off or have a reduction in force when
You've kind of identified your whole life with a particular career field and maybe that sort of evaporated. So finding that solid footing and getting a sense of what do I have that I can use elsewhere, kind of repurposing your skill sets is really important. So I kind of do the whole gamut actually. Everybody has a story, everybody has value, and it's just kind of helping them figure out which direction you want to go in. I'm not a career coach, but I can help them clarify that.
but then also extracting through our coaching or the resume consultation time to figure out what is it that they have that would be of value elsewhere. And so for me, there's nothing better than seeing somebody that I've completed a project with and then they go off and they immediately land something. For me, that tells me that we're on target and I also stay on top of all the different resume writing trends and technology trends that impact how.
Employers look at resumes or even people that have looked out and decide to run their own business, too. I actually help them with that, too, some folks.
Michael Bernzweig (04:19.701)
And I would have to imagine anyone that ends up on your doorstep, they never expected to be there in the first place, right?
Dawn Rasmussen (04:28.11)
Yeah, that seems to be the current theme, yes. You know, some people are a little bit more mindful and they're being proactive, so it's sort of a balance of people are thinking ahead and there are other people that are starting to get a bad vibe about their workplace and so they're starting to get little worried and so I always tell people, you know, listen to your gut instinct and your intuition because if you're starting to feel a little nervous, there's usually something afoot anyway, so you need to make sure that you
Michael Bernzweig (04:32.321)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (04:39.393)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (04:50.657)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (04:55.65)
get yourself taken care of. And then there's the other set of people who have experienced job loss. And then like I said, there's other people that don't have a job, either they left it or they lost it, and then they decide to start their own business. So there's a lot of different avenues.
Michael Bernzweig (05:12.905)
Yeah, and it is a journey. mean, I don't think that there's stability in any part of the world like there was in the early days. I look back on my parents' generation and...
You know, you took a job, you were there for 30 years, you retired, you had a pension, and that was that. Today, I think if you're in a career for more than several years, that's, you know, par for the course. And I think...
Dawn Rasmussen (05:43.951)
I think it depends because there's a career which is like the bigger picture like you're doing one particular focus area and then there's a job which there can be many jobs in an overall career I just always like to clarify that Yeah, yeah, and you know I think you're absolutely right the day that you know like our parents used to stay in the same job and they get the golden watch you know for retirement and everything those are over
Michael Bernzweig (05:51.713)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (05:56.105)
Right.
Yeah, and that's an important distinction.
Michael Bernzweig (06:10.468)
Yeah, those days are gone
Dawn Rasmussen (06:12.526)
And, it used to be if you were in the same job 10 years, that would be good. And then, you know, people have had shorter and shorter durations in jobs. I think that the thing that's really important to remember is that people are only, well, the first thing is to understand that you are in a job and that is basically a two-way agreement. It is a business decision on behalf of the employer that they want to hire you and keep you on board and you're bringing value.
Michael Bernzweig (06:20.631)
Okay.
Dawn Rasmussen (06:41.784)
But then conversely on your end, you're only in the job as long as you feel valued, if you're being compensated fairly, if you feel like the work's challenging and there's upward mobility. And if either one of those agreements goes by the wayside, then that's where people end up job helping. And so it's not really bad thing anymore. There's almost a kind of a reverse thing here now that if you've been in the job too long, it might mean that you've stagnated.
It's a different economy, it's a different job market, and people are supposed to be nimble and be able to acquire skills and move up and move on. And employers are looking for people that can bring new ideas and new concepts and new diversity of thought and experience to the background, to the job.
Michael Bernzweig (07:09.751)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (07:28.501)
Yeah, and when you're providing guidance to someone, how do you reflect back on them, you know, the idea of career versus entrepreneurship and starting a business? how do you know which might be right for you?
Dawn Rasmussen (07:49.196)
You know, that's a really good question. so, you know, a career can also include being an entrepreneur. It could be that you have a phase in your life that you end up doing your own business. And I always like to kind of stop people in their tracks when they say, well, I've been my own business owner. Now I need to get a real job. And I say, no, no, no, no, let's just stop and just think about this for just a second. If you've had a job,
and where you've owned your own business, you are much more in tune with what the bottom line means on a daily basis. If you're a business owner, you're checking the P &L, you're looking at all the different operations and everything like that. And so you're making decisions that are much more tacitly hands on than someone who's been in middle management at somebody else's company for the entirety of their lives. So if...
I really don't like it when people say, I've been at my own business owner, now I need to get a real job. You've absolutely had a real job and you have more value in my mind and you need to sell it as such to potential employers if you decide to go work for somebody else, that you're gonna protect their bottom line. You have a better idea of what business risk might mean and what kinds of things you might need to do as far as opportunities and entrepreneurial mindset. careers are the bigger concept.
And careers can take shifts as well. I mean, you could be in the software industry and then switch over and be a horse whisperer. It could happen. And so it's really understanding the jobs are what make up the entirety of the career and the jobs will follow the career. So you have to be kind of mindful of what is that next step. The next step would be a job which can change the arc of your career. Great question.
Michael Bernzweig (09:22.315)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (09:38.889)
Interesting. And so, so over the course of a career, you may have multiple jobs and or a business and all of that can, you know, be a portion of your overall career career journey, I guess. Yeah, interesting.
Dawn Rasmussen (09:47.6)
yeah. Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (09:55.426)
Yes. I love to talk to people. speak a lot nationally. And so I'll toss out the question, how many jobs do you think I've ever had in my life? And so people start scratching their heads and so they'll throw out some numbers and usually they're pretty low and I go higher, higher, higher, higher. And they're like, what? And I'm not a job hopper. mean, like I said, I've owned my own business for almost 18 years now. So my number.
is 37 jobs in my lifetime since I was a kid. Okay? A lot of times, and this is very indicative of the gig economy, is that we may have multiple jobs at the same time. Does that make sense?
Michael Bernzweig (10:28.393)
Wow.
Michael Bernzweig (10:36.823)
And I think, yeah, absolutely. And I think a big part of it is, you know, throughout that journey and as you're going throughout the journey, what do you learn along the way that makes you the person that you are today? And I think that's, that's an in, you know, exploring what you do like, what you don't like. And I think sometimes figuring out what you don't like is just as important because then you can zero in on the areas that are important to you.
Dawn Rasmussen (11:05.902)
Absolutely. just had, I have a lot of colleagues and I had a chat just yesterday from a career colleague and she's kind of not quite winding down with her own coaching business. And so she was just wanting to float some ideas with a colleague. And so we were just talking and she, there's one area of coaching. just, it's a heavy lip for her. It's just kind of a burden. She doesn't want to do it. And she kept.
talking about that and I said, well, I think you've answered your own question, haven't you? And there was this long pause and then she said, yes, I have, that she doesn't want to do anymore. You have to focus on the things that give you joy. But if you're more junior in your career, the key is that you are going to have multiple jobs in your lifetime and you are maybe going to even have multiple careers in your lifetime. But what you want to do is to always walk away from each job, each employer.
with a new set of skill sets you can roll into the next role. So you're constantly growing, it'll open your minds to possibility and really kind of just create some new avenues that you may have never even contemplated in a million years. And so that's the exciting part of it. But also being mindful that you don't wanna be going all over the place. I've worked with people that have like 20 different career areas in their resume. It's like, it's gonna be hard for an employer to really figure out what they're all about.
Michael Bernzweig (12:23.627)
Thank
Dawn Rasmussen (12:27.434)
So trying to pull on those transferable skill sets is where we have to go on those.
Michael Bernzweig (12:33.057)
So Don, there's a lot of people listening to this podcast that quite honestly are, you know, in their journey, they're considering a career in tech in some space. And what is some of the...
the ideas that you have that'll help people, know, especially in an industry where skills become outdated very quickly. What are some of your strategies, if you can kind of bullet point for us, how professionals who are in the tech space can maintain their marketability over time?
Dawn Rasmussen (13:08.606)
I love that question. I always tell people you need to be marketable and that one of the top ways to be marketable and make yourself viable in a totally different career, like if you're trying to get in the software, is to really, you got to get on the horse and start really doubling down on your professional development. So a good way to identify some key things that will help you so you can ladder over to a different career.
is to look at different job descriptions. If there's a skill set that comes up over and over over again in different postings, and you're kind of smacking your forehead saying, I wish I had that skill set, that means you have a skill gap. So go take the class on that. Another thing you want to do is to be aware that maybe there's version 3.0, maybe you know version 2.0, and there's a new version of that tool, and you need to make sure that you're on the, you need to make sure that you're on top of the latest and greatest version of that.
Michael Bernzweig (13:50.965)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (14:05.868)
Number three would be really staying on top of what are the forward-facing conferences that are looking at what the trends are, the new applications, the new, there's even regulations that are impacting things. So it could be platforms, whatever it is, you need to kind of get into that thought leadership space. And those are where your major industry organizations are. And they usually have a major.
conference and that's what they're talking about because they want everybody to help evolve and what happens is you learn these things and bring it back to the company and you can help the company evolve to meet future challenges or capitalize on future opportunities. And the last thing to
It's more kind of just to have in your back pocket. There are lot of bad bosses out there. I call them boss-zillas. And you don't want to be one of them. so getting management and leadership training is really important. So you're well equipped to move into those roles should you want to and the opportunity comes up so that you're ready to go. You're not going to be an incompetent boss. So those four things for professional development are really important. And then finally, just making sure that
Michael Bernzweig (14:51.223)
Okay.
Dawn Rasmussen (15:11.646)
if you're moving into a different career field, that means you have to have a brand new ballgame of new contacts. And so most jobs are found through someone you know. So making sure that you join the appropriate industry professional organization. I'm not talking about a LinkedIn group. This is like one that you pay membership dues and they are the kind of the gold standard, but they usually have events as well as education opportunities. The events are usually, you know, at the local chapter level or even at
Michael Bernzweig (15:26.465)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (15:40.492)
the national conference level, that you get to meet people. And this is where you start building a whole new foundation of contacts. And you need to be out there talking to people so you become a known quantity versus just, you know, somebody just comes in and they have no knowledge of who you are. Again, people get hired by people that they know.
Michael Bernzweig (16:00.991)
Makes a lot of sense. you know, exactly people, people buy from people, people connect with people. And it's really that personal connection that can make a big, big difference. So as something you mentioned at the top of the podcast, you said that you're seeing it's a, it's a more challenging time in, the career space. You're seeing a lot of people finding themselves right size.
Dawn Rasmussen (16:27.395)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (16:30.905)
downsized, outsized, not where they expect it to be, whatever you want to call it. Why do you think that is at this point in time?
Dawn Rasmussen (16:33.518)
Right.
Dawn Rasmussen (16:41.358)
I think that we're undergoing a lot of turn in a lot of different industries. And so there's a lot of changes just in the natural evolution of the businesses. There's a lot of uncertainty at the federal level without getting any political discussions here. there are a lot of people have lost jobs in the government system and they may be in software or some aspect of tech in the federal administration. And so now they're going to be looking for work. So that
Michael Bernzweig (16:57.259)
Sure.
Dawn Rasmussen (17:11.372)
job marketplace with candidates has just exponentially expanded. And there's a lot of volatility with the economic markets. People aren't sure what's gonna happen. And so if anything, I'm seeing a lot more calculated risk taking and conservation. People are being a lot more conservatives as far as hiring and growth because they're not sure. They don't wanna expand and then immediately have to contract. So they're kind of staying in pack as it were. So maybe not as much.
Michael Bernzweig (17:17.322)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (17:37.365)
Right, let's count some people who are organizations who are a little hesitant.
Dawn Rasmussen (17:41.442)
the latest jobs report came out and it was looking pretty good. But there's a lot of people getting laid off. I think Intel just laid off 12,000 people and it's a lot of people are being affected. So again, it's the turn. I think I just saw Skype, remember that, we're on Zoom or usually we use Zoom, but Skype was the it thing before.
Michael Bernzweig (18:02.123)
Yeah, it was one of my favorite platforms.
Dawn Rasmussen (18:06.816)
you know, that's the churn that there's a new product out. So who knows how long Zoom will go. So it's just, you know, it's nature of change and automation and AI and, you know, there's a lot of things that are going on. So I think as a candidate, it's worrisome. But if you stay the course and stay focused on number one, showcasing your value, number two, networking, number three, staying on top of all your skill sets.
Michael Bernzweig (18:12.929)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (18:34.038)
And number five, just really getting out there and being resourceful and talking to people and being open to new ideas that can help you stay afloat in this pretty contested job marketplace.
Michael Bernzweig (18:46.593)
So for someone that's making a career transition, maybe from one field to a completely different field, what are some of the, if you were to bullet point, some of the compromises that they may need to make in that transition that they should be prepared for? And what is the upside to some of those compromises?
Dawn Rasmussen (19:13.654)
I think probably the biggest compromise that may need to be made is compensation and that includes both salary and benefits because whereas you might have been a director in one level in a different organization and now you're trying to get software but you don't know anything about software.
Michael Bernzweig (19:23.063)
Sure.
Dawn Rasmussen (19:34.22)
or you're not as familiar. So you don't want to undersell the transferable skill sets. I leadership is leadership is leadership, but if you don't understand the nuances and implications of a brand new field, that's where professional development can help address some of those knowledge gaps. But you can't start out being a vice president of software if you've never worked in the software field, because there's so many different aspects to software.
There's research developments, product marketability, viability, all these different things that you have to do. so, it may mean a step back. I think part of your success making, trying to navigate through this part where you have to concede some things, but is also having those conversations with decision makers to find out where would you fit?
or talking to people who are representative of where you want to go and find out what their requirements are and find and kind of look at how much do you match what those requirements are. But there may be a little bit of a honeymoon period or grace period where you have to kind of get up to speed and get a little bit more specific on whatever that software product or service might be. So that's where, you know, you may have to make some concessions as far as salary, even job title and benefits as well.
Michael Bernzweig (20:59.767)
Sure. And do you have, we always like to provide some actionable tips for our listeners. Do you have some tips for navigating that journey from one career to another to make it as smooth as possible?
Dawn Rasmussen (21:14.422)
Absolutely.
Yeah, if you're changing from one career to another, number one, you need to do a transferable skill set inventory so you know what you have that can translate to a different field. Those are uniform skill sets. The second thing you want to do is to follow thought leaders in your desired career field because they're talking about the things that are going on and you need to make sure, you know, maybe someone
writes a post or puts a post on LinkedIn and you need to do a little bit digging to learn and understand that. I'm not in software myself and when first blockchain came through, I was trying to figure out what the heck this was. And I'm just a lay person, but it was an opportunity for me to learn a little bit more. So it's the same kind of thing. As you hear about different things coming up that maybe a thought leader talks about, then do the deep digging on it. And maybe you need to take
Michael Bernzweig (21:51.447)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (21:55.735)
Bye!
Dawn Rasmussen (22:10.382)
to take it to the next level and maybe you want to join that professional organization. There's an association for everything as I like to say. And that way you're building connections. It depends on how deep you might need to go to connect to the new field or new direction you're going in. you have to have your transferable skill sets, but then you also have baseline proficiencies and knowledge about that field so you understand.
all those, like I said, nuances and implications of what you're trying to work with or work on.
Michael Bernzweig (22:42.111)
Makes a lot of sense and I think that's a very realistic approach to transitioning from one area to another in terms of careers. So you mentioned transferable skills. Can you kind of elaborate on that? Like what are some of the skills that, know, if you blow everything up and you say, I've at least got this, what are some of those transferable skills?
Dawn Rasmussen (23:03.992)
Bye-bye.
Dawn Rasmussen (23:09.58)
Well, anytime you're talking about software, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of this has to do with project management from start to finish. So if you've got a design or a service and then you have to manage the project to get it to market, right? understanding the whole process of resource allocation, deadlines, tasks, and people, and money, that's all project management. So that's an easy transferable skill.
And then if you break it down a little bit more, maybe marketing would be another one. Another one would be quality assurance, testing, design. So if you have some of those skillsets, I mean, it's really just drilling down to your target job and looking at that job description. And I always like to tell people, when you look at a target job description, reverse each requirement and turn it into a
question and say, do I have an example or do I have skills in doing X, Y, Z, whatever the skill set is that's listed in the job posting? And then that's kind of like your hot list of like, okay, yes, I'm meeting, you know, 90 % of the requirements. And that's another thing that I just want to digress just a moment about. A lot of these job descriptions are their dream list. That's the best way of putting it.
And, you know, it's, if they're looking at, there's a term in the recruiting industry, they're looking for the purple squirrel or the unicorn that someone who meets all of those requirements. And usually most people don't, they meet, you know, certain percentage of those. And then the rest of it, just kind of got to go by the seat of your pants. And so that's where they're looking at the soft skills. Like, are you adaptable? Are you energetic? Are you, do you take initiative?
Michael Bernzweig (24:40.705)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (24:52.6)
Those are things like if you don't know, they're looking to see if you as a candidate can figure it out or find the resources to get you there. And so if you don't know that stuff. So those are some things to kind of think about for sure.
Michael Bernzweig (25:06.273)
So I know that you said that a component or a subset of the individuals you're working with are highly skilled executives who might be making transitions from one space to another, either a career or a company or what have you. If you were to bullet point what you see is some of the common mistakes for executives that they're making time and time again that with some
Dawn Rasmussen (25:15.438)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (25:35.095)
coaching or some thought or some insight they can avoid. What are those?
Dawn Rasmussen (25:41.102)
Oh boy, there's a lot there. I'm seeing a lot of executives that are absolutely in shell shock right now. And what I commonly hear from them is I've never had to look for a job before. So they're in essence a babe in the woods as far as trying to search for a job because everything's been found through someone they knew and all of a sudden by whatever means, either by choice or not by choice, they are now in the job market.
Michael Bernzweig (25:43.861)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (26:10.006)
and they don't know where to start. so, you know, part of it is the resume and, you know, certainly if you're at the C-suite level, you've probably been working for quite a while that, you know, there's exceptions to everything, but chances are their resume is pretty outdated, especially if they haven't even touched it. So you can see immediately, you know, I see them, you know, they say, I've never, haven't looked for a job. I've just had a basic resume just as a formality.
and now they really are in a competitive job market and so their resume needs a lot of work. And so it's understanding that and going back to the whole, you know, contacts thing. Again, it's who do you know? And you know, it's...
making sure that you're well read and you're well connected. Those are all things that kind of come to play for executives because it's, you have to be on top of your game and be aware of what value, and this actually applies to everybody. You have to understand what value you've brought to a company, whether you're the executive or you're.
product testing manager. it's, you can't just say I did this. You have to talk about, how did it help the company? And that's the real change in resumes. You need to talk about value versus just tasks.
Michael Bernzweig (27:28.471)
So what's a realistic timeframe that someone should, I know it's hard to lock it down to a number, but that someone should have on their radar as they're starting a job search from zero. do they, what's realistic and how do you maintain a job search over an extended period of time?
Dawn Rasmussen (27:55.67)
You know, it is a lot to do with every person's motivation, skill set, connections, knowledge, how they sell themselves. It's all over the board. There's some people that, you know, they have a, it's also when you start a job search that maybe, like I alluded to earlier, that maybe they're in the job and there's a lot of, all of sudden, a lot of closed door meetings and executives running around looking kind of frantic and you maybe read a stock report and things aren't going well and.
Michael Bernzweig (28:18.743)
starting early.
Dawn Rasmussen (28:24.79)
It's like, well, those are sure indicators that the company's not doing well. You might want to start getting your resume, you know, patched up here. So it just depends on the individual. mean, I always tell people.
Michael Bernzweig (28:32.247)
video.
Michael Bernzweig (28:37.056)
Or maybe a better question, where do you even begin when you find yourself in that position? What's your first step? What's your plan to hit the road running?
Dawn Rasmussen (28:44.856)
Mm-hmm.
Dawn Rasmussen (28:50.114)
gosh, well, hitting the road running is gonna require you, if you're still at the company, you want to make note of the projects where you can quantify your results. So that might be performance reviews, staff reports, plan of work, kudos that you've gotten, anything else, post project recaps, anything that will help tell the story. And so that will help jog your memory when you're going to write your resume. So if you still have access, you're still there.
Michael Bernzweig (29:17.601)
Sure.
Dawn Rasmussen (29:19.822)
Getting those numbers are going to be very critical in jogging your memory. I always sort of joke most people don't even know what they did five minutes ago, let alone five years ago. So trying to reconstruct something, especially under duress, if your job is under scrutiny, that's very difficult. So being more proactive is important. so getting those numbers and then...
Michael Bernzweig (29:40.021)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (29:42.614)
getting into your resume to prepare that and also kind of at the same time focusing on your networking because technically you should be laying the groundwork for your next job while you're in your current job. That's where you wanna be doing, you know, going. You wanna kind of have your eye on that next role and this is part of your greater career arc and career trajectory is understanding, okay, well, I think I wanna be a director and I'm a manager right now.
and it's in the same field, software development director versus software development manager. So what am I doing to ladder up to that next level and how am I taking on bigger projects and notable impactful projects? So it's kind of taking a little bit about looking externally, what kinds of roles are out there, what kinds of skill sets do you need to have? And then also again,
trying to gather what information you have internally, but then also trying to take some of those stretch assignments if you have the ability to do that, because that can be a resume building activity. And so once you get everything pulled together, you obviously wanna be working on LinkedIn. That's very critical.
because there's actually a separate version of LinkedIn called LinkedIn recruiter. And so people can find you sort of like search engine optimization, same concept on LinkedIn. So you want to make sure that you have a footprint out there. And if you don't, then you're kind of considered obsolete, especially in the software industry.
Michael Bernzweig (31:06.497)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (31:15.275)
Yeah, makes sense. for someone that, you know, I firmly believe you need to wake up every day and love what you're doing. And that's not always possible in every company, every journey and to be upfront. But if you wake up and you're not happy with what you're doing and maybe you're listening to this podcast and you're saying, need out. For someone that wants to make that transition yesterday, should they just up and leave it?
Dawn Rasmussen (31:22.38)
Yes.
Dawn Rasmussen (31:36.43)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (31:42.697)
job or what's the right way to take the next steps to get to where they want to get to.
Dawn Rasmussen (31:49.85)
That is a great question. A lot of people struggle with that dilemma. And so if you're in a situation where you're not loving your job, maybe it's even giving you lot of PTSD, there's a lot of that too. And so you kind of have to shift your mindset. You realize that this is just a means to the end. mean, there is...
Michael Bernzweig (32:03.073)
Sure.
Dawn Rasmussen (32:12.918)
I do want to acknowledge that there is a psychological cost staying in a job that's literally making you sick. So you have to kind of balance, you have enough reserve funds to kind of bridge a potential time gap between when you would give your notice and when you could find another job? But the conventional wisdom is that you don't want to give notice at a job until you have another job lined up.
Michael Bernzweig (32:20.822)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (32:31.019)
Yeah, because that's very realistic. mean, it definitely can take time.
Dawn Rasmussen (32:40.782)
And so that's, but there's incidents out there that there have been job offers being rescinded now. And so people have already made, you know, given their notice, they're already maybe in between jobs, they're waiting to start their next job. And then they get a notice like, well, sorry, your job has been rescinded, offer is now rescinded. It has nothing to do with them. It might be that, you know, especially with any federal funded groups that there are, you know, there's research and technology and software.
Michael Bernzweig (32:41.335)
Got it.
Michael Bernzweig (33:01.793)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (33:08.577)
Things change, right? Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (33:10.446)
then all of sudden there's no money from the grant funding or whatever it is. So it's difficult.
Michael Bernzweig (33:16.577)
So to touch on something you mentioned earlier, AI. So obviously AI is changing the entire landscape of recruiting, job search, resume writing, everything, resume screening. How do you suggest that individuals, you know,
Dawn Rasmussen (33:21.837)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (33:36.577)
plan their resumes around the fact that the landscape has changed so dramatically so quickly. What's important to keep in mind?
Dawn Rasmussen (33:47.862)
You know, with the whole AI landscape and how resumes are being perceived, well, just count on the fact, number one, that your resume will be likely scanned by an applicant tracking system. So the employer will basically take a job description, dump it in the software and have a predetermined hit ratio of how many skill sets in your resume match whatever the job requirements are. So you've got to plan on that. Conversely,
You know, I will be honest, if you're an entry level person, these AI tools can write a fairly competent resume. And even if you're more senior management, it will write a good outline, but it's not there yet. And everybody has nuances in their career, maybe something happened with the company, they went belly up, maybe they got sold. I mean, there's a lot of different facets in
AI isn't there yet to be able to push back and ask those deeper questions. So if you just need a basic kind of outline, that's a great way of looking at AI tools if you're a little bit more than entry level. It's a great outline tool as a building block, but you're gonna have to put the shoulder to the grindstone here and actually do some heavy lifting if you want a resume that will stand out.
I will tell you that it's interesting that there are employers and recruiters and headhunters that are now, they can see a resume and know immediately it was written by AI and they're becoming more dismissive of that. And so if you really want it to be reflective of you and include your voice, then either you do it yourself or you can hire somebody like me, I'm a resume writer, that we can include that.
Michael Bernzweig (35:10.452)
And.
Michael Bernzweig (35:25.899)
Yeah, and it's so... Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (35:38.946)
voice, but then I'm going to ask you a lot of really targeted questions that the AI, you know, it's one of those things that it's, know, garbage in garbage out. If you know how to prompt it, it you know, it's, it's really determined on how, how much of an expert you are and prompting it too. But still it's probably going to miss some of that voice stuff, but I know there are tools out there that evolving and it may get there in the next five years or less, but for now it's just not there.
Michael Bernzweig (36:04.875)
Yeah, and it's so interesting because a career, second only to your biggest investment in your life, your home, a career is a very, very important component to your life. And being short-sighted in terms of spending the money that it might take to brush up, have someone professionally help you get the coaching and the services that you need to get
Dawn Rasmussen (36:15.021)
Mm-hmm.
Michael Bernzweig (36:34.839)
to where you need to get to is a drop in the bucket in the overall scheme of things in terms of of compensation so yeah I can absolutely see that so I want to finish with a question that I saw come in from a lot of individuals you know there's a lot of individuals out there that are
Little up there in the years and they may have recently found themselves out of a position that they had been working in for some time and now they're heading into the job market. What do you see that's unique and different about somebody towards that end of their career journey?
in terms of getting to the next phase and, you know, of the individuals that you've worked with and the ones that have successfully got back up on their feet and got to that next step, what are the differences between, you know, the individuals that kind of get there and the ones that don't?
Dawn Rasmussen (37:34.254)
But you know, when you think about the people that are kind of at the latter part of their career are, you know, they, one of the disadvantages as we all know is usually their compensation requirements because they've been working up, up, up, up, up. And then to suddenly be out there looking, then people are going to say, oh, you're going to want too much money. We can't afford you. But going back to my original concept that I was talking about earlier, it's
Michael Bernzweig (37:51.831)
.
Dawn Rasmussen (38:02.476)
all about value and what people in the latter phase of their career can offer is experience. like, you you've gone through a lot of things, you kind of know how these are gonna turn out. have and you've experienced a lot of twists and turns. mean, like whatever we're going through now, it's, you know, it's kind of indicative of what we've done in the past. So what we can do is to really focus on if you need someone who's weathered a lot.
and you know, stabilizing force, reassuring leader, a person who can roll with the punches. You know, if you've gotten a lot more experience, then you have a lot more, you're more nimble and flexible. And also just being, saying that you're open to new ideas, that creates that partnership with the people at the other end of their career that are full of energy, they wanna try new things.
And so I think if you can unite, this is the generational issue in the workplace, but trying to, if you do it well, you can have two different disparate generations that have kind of two different perspectives, really work together to inspire innovation, but then also caution against, know, uninformed decision-making. And when you have those balances, that's where companies really thrive. And so it's really important to find a
Culture if you're at the latter arc of your career to find a company culture that is open to facilitating community problem-solving community sharing collaboration Those are probably the biggest things and that's not necessarily something that appear in a job description This is where you need to rely on connections internally at these companies that you've met It's your network and they can give you this skinny on what kind of culture
is there at that company that would give you an indication of how well you would be valued and how you might plug into whatever they're doing. And so that's really critical, but it is hard. And one thing you should do is remember that your resume is to get you an interview. The interview gets the job. So be really careful about tipping your hand about how old you are by putting more than 10 to 15 years of experience on your resume.
Dawn Rasmussen (40:20.462)
You don't want to put what graduation year you were on on your resume either. And you don't want to have an email address that is like, you know, uh, Beatles fan, 1963 at Yahoo.com or something like that. You know what I mean? So our Lawrence Welk fan, 1940, it's just like those things are tip offs. So you have to remove those barriers and obstacles before you get to the interview. But you know, getting that inside scoop and getting that.
Michael Bernzweig (40:33.846)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (40:37.663)
Yeah.
Dawn Rasmussen (40:49.036)
warm introduction to have it. You don't want to waste your time on a company that only wants young people, that's illegal, it's discrimination, but it happens. We know this happens. And so you want to make sure that you're doing your own due diligence and through your connections and finding those companies that honor that type of culture and that kind of collaboration.
Michael Bernzweig (40:56.855)
But it happens.
Michael Bernzweig (41:11.083)
Well, now I understand why companies all over the country are hiring you to come in and speak to present to their teams. You definitely have a wealth of knowledge. So really appreciate the, yeah, I really appreciate the deep dive and all the info. So this week, joining us on the career spotlight, we've had Dawn Rasmussen. She's the...
Dawn Rasmussen (41:18.03)
you
Dawn Rasmussen (41:22.658)
thank you.
Michael Bernzweig (41:35.361)
President of Pathfinder Writing and Career Services and we'll leave a link in the show notes for anybody that would like to reach out to Don but from this end of it for anybody that's
tuning in for the first time in addition to Career Spotlight. Hopefully you enjoyed this episode and you'll subscribe. But we also have the Software Spotlight and the Consulting Spotlight. Both, actually all three are available on your favorite podcast players. So definitely subscribe and check out the other podcasts.
If you're interested in keeping up on everything going on over here at Software Oasis, go to softwareoasis.com backslash subscribe, join our weekly newsletter where we publish all kinds of insights, research and studies on careers, tech, software and consulting. And once again, thanks so much for joining us Don on Career Spotlight this week.
Dawn Rasmussen (42:35.736)
Thanks for having me. Thanks, Michael.