In this episode of Career Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Oscar Skolding, a digital strategist at SEO Sherpa. Oskar shares his unique career journey, starting from an apprenticeship in the UK to becoming a key player in a leading global SEO agency based in Dubai. The conversation delves into the day-to-day responsibilities of a digital strategist, the impact of AI on SEO and digital marketing, and the importance of user experience and data-driven decision-making in the industry. Oskar emphasizes the evolving nature of SEO and the significance of conversion rate optimization in achieving immediate results for clients. In this conversation, Oscar Scolding and Michael Bernzweig delve into the intricacies of SEO, focusing on the importance of data-driven decision-making, optimizing conversion rates, and understanding client needs. They discuss strategies for improving website performance, the significance of quick decision-making in achieving results, and the evolving landscape of SEO, particularly the rise of platforms like TikTok for B2B marketing. The discussion emphasizes a holistic approach to digital marketing that encompasses various channels beyond traditional SEO.
In this episode of Career Spotlight, host Michael Bernzweig interviews Oscar Skolding, a digital strategist at SEO Sherpa. Oskar shares his unique career journey, starting from an apprenticeship in the UK to becoming a key player in a leading global SEO agency based in Dubai. The conversation delves into the day-to-day responsibilities of a digital strategist, the impact of AI on SEO and digital marketing, and the importance of user experience and data-driven decision-making in the industry. Oskar emphasizes the evolving nature of SEO and the significance of conversion rate optimization in achieving immediate results for clients. In this conversation, Oscar Scolding and Michael Bernzweig delve into the intricacies of SEO, focusing on the importance of data-driven decision-making, optimizing conversion rates, and understanding client needs. They discuss strategies for improving website performance, the significance of quick decision-making in achieving results, and the evolving landscape of SEO, particularly the rise of platforms like TikTok for B2B marketing. The discussion emphasizes a holistic approach to digital marketing that encompasses various channels beyond traditional SEO.
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Michael Bernzweig (00:02.339)
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I'd like to welcome everyone to this week's edition of the Career Spotlight. I'm your host, Michael Bernzweig, the founder of Software Oasis. And this week we're fortunate to be joined by Oscar Scolding He's a digital strategist at SEO Sherpa. And with that, Oscar, welcome to the podcast.
Oscar Scolding (00:24.44)
Thanks for having me Michael, it's an absolute pleasure to be here as well.
Michael Bernzweig (00:27.841)
Yeah, and I think we have a little bit of a time difference, but I'm glad that we were able to connect at a time that worked on both ends. Maybe for any of our listeners that may not be familiar with either yourself or the agency, can you give us a little background on maybe your personal journey kind of getting to where you are and a little bit about the day to day over there at SEO Sherpa?
Oscar Scolding (00:57.76)
Yeah, of course, I'd be happy to do so as well. just for reference, SEO Sherpa, which is the digital marketing agency that I currently work for.
is one of the, say at this point, one of the world's leading SEO agencies in terms of ratings and awards one. We're doing some really cool stuff, particularly across like SEO and Google ads and that sort of thing. So in my current capacity, I'm, as you mentioned, a digital strategist. What that means is I've, for the most part, come away from kind of the day-to-day marketing activities and very much focused now on kind of the commercial aspects, pitching new clients, winning new business and that sort of thing. So it's very much a very,
varied role in the day-to-day changes significantly.
In terms of, I suppose, how I got here, the journey has been fairly unique, I'd say, to most in my industry, particularly in the marketing industry as well. So I first started my career just over 10 years ago, rather than going down the, I guess, the traditional route of studying at university and getting kind of a graduate job following that. After college, college for us is from 17 to 18 years old. So just before university, I think it's a little bit different for you guys.
Michael Bernzweig (01:52.623)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (02:12.976)
I went straight into the workforce and I found an apprenticeship program. In the UK that's a pretty popular thing to do as well.
So entered a say fairly low level agency at the time, very, very local team, I four or five staff and kind of built up from there. And again, over the next 10 years, I've kind of gone from, you know, different size agencies, different size businesses. I've gone from, you know, internal marketing teams. I've gone to event marketing and a real big mix of opportunities in between that. And eventually found myself here where I am now. So it's been quite an interesting road so far, but yeah, one that's
been very fun as well.
Michael Bernzweig (02:54.807)
Now, if I understand correctly, you grew up in the UK or?
Oscar Scolding (02:59.542)
Yeah, absolutely right. I'm, for any viewers that are aware of the UK and its geography, so I was originally based in Essex, which is east of London, fairly close to the sea as well. I'm not sure if you've had a chance to visit.
Michael Bernzweig (03:16.515)
I have, yes, I've spent some time over there.
Oscar Scolding (03:20.462)
Brilliant. But originally from the UK. Yeah. So I think I spent the first five or six years of my career over there and then moved out to Dubai where I'm now.
Michael Bernzweig (03:23.885)
And we'll.
Is, yeah, is the the agency where is the agency located or is it global?
Oscar Scolding (03:34.65)
Global agency, but headquarters and where I'm currently based is in the Middle East. Yeah, so currently based in Dubai. For the most part, yeah, it's a beautiful city. I mean, the days here are now getting in the region of kind of 40 to 42 degrees Celsius. It's a little hot, the summers are a little bit tough, but the winters are absolutely beautiful. super international city.
Michael Bernzweig (03:42.098)
fun.
Michael Bernzweig (03:51.242)
Yeah, so it's a little different.
Oscar Scolding (04:01.676)
real vibrant crowd as well. So yeah, very, very fun place to be.
Michael Bernzweig (04:04.367)
So a lot of our listeners are maybe in a career in a different industry or different aspect of industry overall and maybe thinking of shifting into a different type of career, maybe even SEO. So I was wondering, can you share a little bit with our listeners?
What the day-to-day life of that kind of position is and what you might be doing on an average day, the kind of clients you might be working with and are you helping them move their businesses forward?
Oscar Scolding (04:44.184)
Yeah, of course, I'd be happy to do so. I think as the general scope, I digital marketing is a really fun industry to be a part of.
marketing in general as well. Digital marketing comes in, you can split it right down the middle in terms of kind of the job roles and the, you know, what goes into the day to day. There's like the creative aspects that speak to people that are maybe a little bit more right hemisphere sided in terms of the creative aspects. You know, maybe there's social media, maybe there's creative, reactive marketing campaigns and that sort of thing. Very dynamic and very fun.
But then there's also a large part of that being kind of left hemisphere thinkers as well in terms of the analytical side of things, data-driven people that really enjoy digging through data and mapping kind of trends and that sort of thing. for anyone, this would be a really good industry to be a part of. And I'm sure you'd be able to find a role within this as well.
Now, I think in terms of, guess, what the day-to-day looks like, it's super, super varied. It changes considerably. So, at an agency, obviously you're working directly with clients. Some are incredibly fun to deal with, some can be a little bit more challenging. And I think a large part of our day-to-day is kind of educating them in terms of what digital marketing is, in particular SEO and how that benefits the business and what the long-term benefits are as well.
So.
Michael Bernzweig (06:13.381)
Sure, and obviously setting the right expectations for what can be achieved and all of that.
Oscar Scolding (06:18.424)
For sure, for sure. Yeah, that's super important. I think now, in particular within digital marketing, it's a really interesting time as well with the rise of AI. Because a lot of even marketing agencies and that sort of thing are utilizing AI.
probably a little bit more than they should be. So quite often as many, I'm sure many of the kind views are aware as well, you you've gone to LinkedIn and 80 % of what you see there is now AI generated, right? The comments, even a lot of the posts themselves. And a very similar thing is happening with websites as well. And people are publishing content on the website that's just completely AI generated and it has no kind of unique spin or value or professionalism about it. And it's quite challenging because that's...
Michael Bernzweig (06:49.657)
Right.
Oscar Scolding (07:06.2)
kind of what your competing gets now. And what that has essentially meant for digital marketing, in particular with the rise of search engines, is that it's kind of become, which is being kind of coined as search everywhere, right? So when you're looking for SEO, and digital marketing typically is relating to Google, right? When you look into Google, looking for a product, looking for a service, it's improving the visibility that you've got in that space.
But really, particularly over the last couple of years, search has changed. SEO has changed considerably. So it's not just about focusing on SEO anymore. It's also making sure that when someone is looking for a product or service, that you're also visible in, for instance, ChatGBT. You'd be shocked at how many leads as a business we now get through ChatGBT. It's considerable.
And basically this is people searching for, know, just give me a top 10 list of SEO agencies in the Middle East, for instance. And fortunately we're coming up quite well for that, but it's really important to diversify a little bit more, utilize kind of the AI that is becoming very prominent as well.
Michael Bernzweig (08:05.295)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (08:14.757)
Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, if you think about it, things have kind of come full circle in terms of SEO as to where we're at now. anything that can be generated by a large language model, Google, which is clearly one of the leading search engines around the world, they can generate themselves because it's really just collecting, you know,
data across a lot of sets and they're going to come up with the same answer. So it's really more a matter of adding value to the internet and unique content and some fresh concepts and ideas. And right here, what we're doing right now, creating a podcast. This is an example of unique content that doesn't live anywhere else on the internet and add some value to the internet overall. So I think that's a big part of where we're at in the year 2025.
Oscar Scolding (08:43.982)
Mm.
Oscar Scolding (09:09.326)
100%, I could not agree more as well. Within SEO and digital marketing in general, should have always been this case, but it's now more so than ever. It's all about the user experience, ultimately. It's building those trust signals that, as you mentioned, can't be replicated. It's not something that you can chuck into AI and can generate itself. This is unique, this is real, right? And that transcends across all aspects of digital marketing as well. So I think that side is really cool.
because you can really kind of make it quite personal with the brands that you work with.
Michael Bernzweig (09:40.293)
.
Yeah, and I think at the end of the day, mean, you know, all of the traditional search engines, Google, Bing, Yahoo, all of these search engines are at this point seeing annual declines in search volume, you know, from traditional search and.
All of that is being replaced by the place that probably everyone listening to this podcast is searching, which is AI search. there's no question that at the end of the day, everyone or most people in the tech space are using AI throughout their day in different spaces, whether it's perplexity or chat GPT or Gemini or Grok or DeepSeek or what have you, whatever your AI search of choice is.
I think on the flip side of it, the other big question mark, and this is something I wonder what your thoughts are. When you look at traditional search engines, obviously there is a clear leader in terms of traditional search, but when you look at AI search, it's a very fragmented space, they're second to...
chat GPT is not a clear market leader. So when you look at an organization like Google that is used to being number one, you know, in traditional search, it's got to be very disconcerting, you know, for them to figure out how do we, how do we get, get our share of that search and what are your thoughts? how do you, how do you see all of that?
Oscar Scolding (11:04.835)
Yeah.
Oscar Scolding (11:15.832)
Yeah, big, big time.
And I think that's exactly what we're seeing, particularly within Google, now the AI overviews that are being used, right? It's not been done. You see all the images and the kind of jokes that are being made because the recommendations of these AI overviews are awful, telling people to eat glue and that sort of thing. They're really far from where it should be, but it's just the case that they're rushing to try and catch up, right? It's a real, what felt like a panic move at the time. And that's really fed into
Michael Bernzweig (11:26.404)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (11:37.369)
Yeah.
Oscar Scolding (11:48.192)
into our day to day as well. Quite interestingly, think in the US, the AI overviews have been there for a while, right? It's been months and months. They've not actually reached the Middle East as of yet. And I think Europe is still slowly being rolled out as well.
Michael Bernzweig (11:55.461)
a while yeah yeah
Michael Bernzweig (12:03.993)
Yeah, and I think a big part of that, from what I'm hearing, mean that obviously you don't have to go far to hear the news about how much it costs to generate some of these AI responses. Literally many times the cost of a traditional search. So as Google's trying to figure it out, they obviously have to be conscious of cost as well. So I think that.
Oscar Scolding (12:17.742)
Mm.
Michael Bernzweig (12:30.489)
That's a big part of it and getting it right before rolling it out is a big piece.
Oscar Scolding (12:36.229)
That's even more important. But I mean, there's a bit of a sidetrack as well. Again, being based in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, this country is adopting AI quicker than any other country in the world at the moment. They've really placed it as their number one priority. They very recently, I think just last week, announced that AI is now going to be taught in schools from, I think it was like from kindergarten up.
So I think from the ages of like seven or eight or nine years old, kids are going to be learning code, learning AI and how to develop this and further their skillset. Right. So, um, this country is really doubling down on AI at the moment. And I think it's really cool because there's some cool stuff, but yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (13:17.283)
Yeah, for good reason. you know, circling back to something you said earlier in the career, obviously you've built an impressive career working for one of the leading agencies in the world. But, you know, you had to start from somewhere in terms of SEO. What were your roots in terms of your first, you know, when you first experienced SEO and maybe your first position?
having to do anything with the SEO and then getting to where you are now.
Oscar Scolding (13:49.89)
Yeah, of course. So when I first started, as I mentioned, I didn't want to go down kind of the traditional path that a lot of my friends were going down that
typically the schools kind of push you down as well. I didn't really feel like university was the best course for me. So I chose the route of having an apprenticeship programme. So in the UK, this is where you get hired at a fraction of the minimum wage, but you make up for that for the skills and the knowledge that you gain. So I think at the time, I about 17 years old and I was earning, I think it was about equivalent of about $2,
Michael Bernzweig (13:59.574)
you
Oscar Scolding (14:28.176)
maybe $2.50. I remember very clearly because my very cheap lunch would cost more than my hourly wage at the time and I was quite upset about that. But again, that was just getting into the industry, right? It could not have gotten lower than I was at that time. Yeah, that's right. But it got me a foothold into the industry and I could start to kind of figure out actually, this is a career that I want to take forward.
Michael Bernzweig (14:36.493)
I love it.
Yeah, so you started, started at the literal bottom.
Michael Bernzweig (14:46.947)
Yeah.
Oscar Scolding (14:57.762)
Now, digital marketing changes very quickly. 10 years ago, there wasn't TikTok and even SEO itself was very, very different in terms of how you improve your website's performance, how you get more visibility and that sort of thing. So what I was learning then was very different to what people, what I'm learning now.
as well. It's quite old school in a way. But again, it was a really good kind of foothold into this industry. At the time, the agency I worked for was, again, I think it was like four or five of us, a very kind of small town local agency. We worked with clients. I think they were paying us in the region of maybe $500 per month, and fairly small business like plumbers and that sort of thing. So it gave me a bit of an idea, but I hadn't seen a huge amount of the industry just yet. Now,
Michael Bernzweig (15:29.925)
Sure.
Michael Bernzweig (15:44.879)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (15:46.146)
I was quite fortunate because where I lived, was a lot of kind of local agencies at various scales. So after I think about a year of being at that initial place, I then got an opportunity to.
moved to a better agency with more people, with better clients. We worked with brands such as we work with like Ladbrokes and it's a bedding company and a few other platforms as well. So that was a good step up. I then moved a little bit more into kind of the, at the client side, like face-to-face management of things as well. Again, at a fairly young age, it was probably a little bit too inexperienced to be pushed there, but it worked out fortunately. So again, I think being a little bit more client facing then
Michael Bernzweig (16:17.669)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (16:28.816)
started to develop out for me my kind of soft skills that have benefited me again for the last 10 years now. So this was you know how to present correctly, how to speak to clients, to internal team members, to build those relationships. I think that's something that absolutely benefits you in the long term as well, right? So that was one of the most beneficial things I've moved into.
Michael Bernzweig (16:52.457)
And I mean, it's obviously a very analytical space. So as you mentioned earlier in the podcast, love of numbers and statistics and all of that is important. But what are some of the details about the position that you really love that you find you're passionate about? is exciting? mean, it's obviously if done correctly.
you know, a lot of money on the other end of it for your clients. What are the things that make it exciting for you every day?
Oscar Scolding (17:26.24)
Yeah, great question. I think...
And the data is, for me, one of my favorite parts, but with intent as well. So in our kind day-to-day, we use a lot of different platforms, a lot of different tools to measure the success of a website's performance and what essentially we're driving for it as well. Some of the main tools include Google Analytics, Google Search Console, free platforms by Google to track how many people are visiting your website, and things also like kind of conversions and
engagement and those sorts of metrics, right? So you can see who's visiting, can see who's filling out form, who's calling, who's purchasing for e-commerce websites as well. one of my...
Favorite things about this industry is essentially a service called CRO, conversion rates optimization. So what this means is, of the traffic that you're getting through to a website, you can start to understand, OK, we're getting 100 visitors per day, for instance, and we've got a conversion rate of 1%, and that means we're getting one conversion, i.e. either a purchase or a lead generated.
The role of conversion rate optimization is, okay, how do we increase that percentage? How do we increase the number of conversions that we get for the same amount of traffic? And I think this is a really cool one because this is one of the few marketing channels, digital marketing channels that we've got that very immediately affects the results.
Oscar Scolding (18:59.246)
So with SEO, with content creation and that sort of thing, it does take a little bit of time. It's about building visibility, it's about building brand awareness, and that kind builds the top of the funnel, but it has a later effect on revenue later down the line.
With conversion rate optimization, it's immediate, right? Because you can make a change, you can make an improvement, and then it will immediately reflect in terms of the results. what this includes is, I mean, there's tons of tools that we've got access to and a lot of people use, but it's doing things like split A, B testing. So for instance, you have a variant of like maybe like ad copy or that sort of thing, and you test a different variation of that as well. So split A, split B. You collect data and understand which
variant performs best. I think it's really surprising because you always, whenever I do this, I always typically have a favorite. I know B is my favorite. I'm thinking that's going to win, but actually the data proves you otherwise. Right. So it's really cool because I think traditionally marketing was, is very opinionated, right? People lead with what they know, but with digital marketing.
Michael Bernzweig (19:56.333)
Yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (20:03.076)
But the facts don't lie, right? Yeah.
Oscar Scolding (20:05.292)
It's data, right? You can't argue the data. So that's a really cool aspect of it. And quite often it will prove you wrong, unfortunately. But I think that's a really good way to learn and grow with this as well.
Michael Bernzweig (20:15.755)
And that's interesting. Obviously you have a lot of levers that you can pull in terms of conversion rate, but one of the things that I often find, so our community is consultants that are running all kinds of different practices, and one of the things that we're helping them with is to align their organizations with ideal strategic partners.
And the one thing that I find is almost abusing is the number of organizations that join the community and all of a sudden, you know, just a few weeks or a few months into it, find out that the organizations that they've been trying to partner with were not the best strategic partners. And it was a completely different kinds of partner that was the right partner for them.
and where they were starting to see the relationships generate referrals and new clients and all of that. And so I think a lot of times, you know, it's so important, like you said, to look at the data and to kind of separate your preconceived notions and check them at the door and just kind of look at the analytics of what the data is telling you. So if you were to bullet point it for the guests, what are some of the...
Oscar Scolding (21:18.126)
Mm.
Michael Bernzweig (21:38.543)
you know, the buttons that you can push or the levers that you can pull to impact conversion rate, whether it's signups or subscriptions or forms filled out or leads or what have you.
Oscar Scolding (21:48.782)
Yeah, great question. Now this varies considerably based on the scenario, but there's always a couple of consistent things that we see across a lot of websites that would apply. Number one.
would be page speed. Super, super important, right? So how long does your website take to load? How quickly can you interact with the content that you've got? That's really, really important. It needs to be immediately accessible, right? That has other factors when it comes to SEO. You're going to see better visibility as a result of that. But just from a user perspective, it needs to be immediately interactive. The second thing I'd say would be
kind of the prioritization of content on a page. within SEO, we've got something that's called Above the Fold. So, i.e. Above the Fold on your page is what's first immediately visible to you, right? Then anything below the fold, you have to then scroll either on your phone or your laptop or desktop, whatever that looks like.
So the content that you've got above the fold in immediate view is by far the most important. That is the most valuable real estate on the page, right? And quite often people kind of forget that and place content there that's okay, but it's probably not good. It's not the strongest thing that they've got to make that conversion, right? So it's really, really important to prioritize the right content where able as well.
I'd say the third thing that quite often is missed is, I'd say like Trust Seals as well. That's again, both really important for just the raw SEO performance, what Google's looking for, but for sure from a conversion perspective. So Trust Seals take the form of reviews, either Google reviews, Trust Pilot, you've got tons and tons of platforms that can collect that, or you can even just develop it onto your website yourself.
Oscar Scolding (23:45.326)
it's also things such as case studies. It's backing up the data behind your business, i.e. we've worked with X amount of companies, we've saved them millions and millions, whatever that looks like. what kind of brands you're working with in terms of logos, like all of that kind of trust that you can build, is super, super valuable. And quite often that's the difference between you getting an inquiry and then dropping off and going to one of your competitors as well. So those three things are the things we probably see most. There's tons of little micro adjustments that we make in between that as well.
But that's something that everyone essentially could apply to their website.
Michael Bernzweig (24:19.811)
Yeah, I love it. And yeah, we have quite a few organizations, you know, within our community that are focused just on conversion rate optimization. So, you know, it is a niche within a niche. So it's really, really amazing. you know, it just shows you how, you know, a career in SEO can take you in so many different...
Oscar Scolding (24:30.446)
Mm.
Oscar Scolding (24:34.381)
Mm.
Michael Bernzweig (24:44.293)
directions, whether it's just optimizing for conversions, looking at landing pages, copy, there's so many aspects of everything. And even A-B testing, like you were talking about, I'm sure there are organizations that that's all they do, day in and day out, is run testing. In fact,
I had a conversation with someone just the other day and his organization does market research. he said to me, said, Michael, said, the happiest new clients that we have are the ones that contact us before they go to market. He said, the most challenging conversations I have are after a company has gone to market and they didn't do the market research and now they want to know why it didn't work. So I think, you know, a big part of it is, you know,
Oscar Scolding (25:13.23)
Mm.
Oscar Scolding (25:32.12)
Yep.
Michael Bernzweig (25:35.061)
looking at the numbers, doing the proper research, setting the right foundation, all of that. So I guess the other question, do you find, you're working with a lot of, you know, top organizations and clients all around the world, but do you find that a lot of organizations reach SEO Sherpa initially and they've...
more often been doing it in-house on their own, or they've had a bad experience with another agency, or what's a typical scenario for a new client? Where do they come from?
Oscar Scolding (26:08.47)
Yeah, very good question as well. What we typically find is, particularly with the more premium brands that we work with, it's that they've been working with other partners that just haven't really delivered in terms of what they were looking for.
In some cases, they've kind of managed things internally. I'd say if a business gets to the point where it can do it internally itself, and it's not at capacity, then they probably won't necessarily need the help of an agency. It's typically when they get to the point where they need external help and they need to grow it and scale it as much as possible. But a large part of what we hear is, again, we've worked with three or four different agencies over the last few years. We're not really happy with the results. We don't like their ways of working and that sort of thing. That's why we're looking for more help.
now.
Michael Bernzweig (26:58.831)
So, and you know, this might be a good question for a lot of people that are listening. What do you find early in a relationship that is important to kind of lay out or understand or what have you as you're bringing aboard a new client to make sure that things are successful at the other end of the relationship?
Oscar Scolding (27:22.082)
Yeah, great question. And this is something that I've got kind of end to end visibility on for a lot of our clients as well, because I'm there from the beginning and then kind of oversee it in the later stages. So it's really interesting because I've got a very good perspective of this.
Michael Bernzweig (27:36.111)
Sure, sure.
Oscar Scolding (27:38.518)
One of the most important things to outline right from the get-go when we're pitching for new business, when we're getting these leads and we're starting to develop relationship with them, is to understand their pain points. Again, they've been doing SEO, they know the benefit of doing it, they've already been working on this for years, right? You don't necessarily need to sell them into why this is important. It's understanding, again, what they've not had so far and kind of what's been holding them back.
So again, I mentioned maybe they've had another agency, didn't like how they were working. Something we often find, and I hear a lot, is just misalignment in terms of what the priorities are. And one of the big ones, very honestly speaking, is that a lot of marketing agencies...
Michael Bernzweig (28:17.125)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (28:23.63)
can get caught up in the finer details. There's a ton and ton of metrics to track when it comes to marketing. Click through rate, bounce rate, impressions, average rank, all these different metrics. There's tons and tons, the list goes on.
to a certain extent, they are vanity metrics. And quite often these kind of marketing agencies can get too distracted with them. And that would be kind of what they're focusing on. That's what they're reporting on. That's what they're kind of analyzing. And that's what they're kind shouting about the success of as well.
What I find resonates best for a lot of the businesses that I work with is just bring it back. And it's super simple, and it will probably sound very simple as well, is just to bring it back to the revenue. And I think quite often, surprisingly, a lot of marketing agencies miss that as well. So it's actually starting to figure out, OK, if we do SEO, if we can increase traffic to your website by 25%, what does this mean in terms of revenue? And we do that by asking really just the sales figures for the business.
What's the lead to sale conversion rate? What's the conversion rate for the website? And then based on those kind of simple figures, based on an exponential increase in traffic, we can start to calculate what that means for revenue as well. And ultimately that's the main thing that actually builds quite a bit of trust with the clients that we onboard.
Michael Bernzweig (29:48.439)
Interesting. is it, is it mostly B2B organizations you're working with or B2C or do you see a little bit of both or?
Oscar Scolding (29:55.814)
A large mix of both actually, yeah. I'd actually say that it's probably more so B2C. I mean, we work with quite a few of the kind of big fashion marketplaces, for instance. We work with Farfetch, Pretty Little Thing, platforms such as this. And kind of the situations that you deal with across B2B and B2C are obviously very, very different as well. But yeah, some really cool stuff across both. But I'd say B2C is probably most prominent.
Michael Bernzweig (30:05.935)
Okay.
Michael Bernzweig (30:21.935)
Sure. And you know, for anyone listening to this podcast, what are the kinds of organizations that you've been able to, you know, kind of move the needle the most for? Who were your ideal clients?
Oscar Scolding (30:36.758)
Yeah, great question. I mean, in terms of kind of the perfect client fit, know, if we can work with anyone who we want to be working with and how's that going to help them the most? It's typically the businesses that are able to make quick decisions, which sounds fairly basic, but it really, really improves things. I mean, for instance, we work with a lot of household names, you know, when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Quite often the issue is that the implementation of the work that we're suggesting is really, really long, right? Because it works in almost like quarterly cycles to a certain extent. So if we're making changes to certain landing pages and that sort of thing between optimizing them, reworking them, getting them approved by marketing, getting it approved by legal, getting the developers to work on it and the developers finally uploading it, that can be three or four months in some cases. If you're delaying the work
being implemented by three or four months is going to take really, really long time for you actually to see the results, right? The best kind of businesses that we work with are able to make, again, quick decisions. So from that initial stage, this is what we want to do. They say, yep, go for it. And then within a couple of days, that can be implemented. So typically with SEO, it takes maybe even like one, two, maybe three months to actually see the results of what you've done, right? So if you're delaying it by four months to get the work implemented, then you're going to have to wait another three months to see the results.
Michael Bernzweig (31:39.951)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (32:04.846)
that's seven months, that's almost a year, half a year, to actually get the return, right? If you can implement it from day one, it's quick.
Michael Bernzweig (32:10.499)
Yeah, and let's face it. Yeah, I mean, all of the foundational details, know, getting, you know, everything in place in terms of Google search console and analytics and all of the data and tracking and the implementation and everything that you need to, you know, get a client off the ground can take a lot of time if they're not cooperative and working, you know, hand in hand.
Oscar Scolding (32:36.162)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just about kind of prioritizing this, right? I think quite often a lot of businesses onboard an SEO agency and then it's kind of like it's a box ticked, right? Okay, we've got someone for that now, that's fine. But it needs to be important to the business. We need internal stakeholders to actually drive these changes to help us with the implementation as well. And again, those kinds of businesses that we work with typically see the best results from B2B to B2C.
Michael Bernzweig (33:03.181)
Yeah, and I've obviously noticed in getting ready for the podcast that you've worked with some pretty substantial global clients. Are most of your clients within the organization in that enterprise to global enterprise space? Or do you also work with organizations that may be SMB at a mid market or, you know, where do you see the best fit?
Oscar Scolding (33:30.102)
Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think we're very fortunate now to work with a lot of
really big brands, which is fantastic. A large part of our client base is not that as well. I think particularly being based in the Middle East, again across the UAE, also Saudi Arabia, there is a ton of new startups, particularly in the, as I'm sure you know, the tech industry as well. So utilizing tons and tons of new tech is really interesting. So actually quite often we get a chance to work with these startup businesses that are launching from
Michael Bernzweig (33:53.925)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (34:04.752)
scratch as well. So it's one thing to work, I mean, one of our clients is Amazon, for instance, in the MENA region. It's one thing to work with Amazon. It's fairly straightforward, right? They're already pretty, pretty well known, you know? But to take a kind of brand new startup from the ground up and then start to build them into something, that's a very different kind of tactic and strategy that you need to follow. So yeah, we get we got a cool range of clients for sure.
Michael Bernzweig (34:31.309)
Yeah, and then obviously having generated literally billions with an S at the end for your clients globally, that's not something that too many agencies can say. So that is kind of crazy stuff.
Oscar Scolding (34:47.49)
Yeah, it's really cool. Again, I think we're in a very privileged position where we are to work with the clientele that we've got. I think one of the main drivers behind that is just honestly the kind of great work that we've done in the past as well.
A large part of the marketing industry is word of mouth, is referral and that sort of stuff. So you need to build strong relationships with the clients that you've got. It's very likely that they will move on to new business ventures. They'll move teams and this sort of thing. And then if you've done a good job for them, if they like you, they'll bring you along as well. some of biggest client wins has actually been just team members or people that we've worked with moving roles, moving jobs and taking us with them, which is really cool.
Michael Bernzweig (35:27.875)
Yeah, and obviously, SEO encompasses quite a few areas of the technical stack and the marketing stack, shall we say. And you mentioned conversion rate optimization and a lot of the other details that are involved in technical SEO and all of that. as far as some other areas that organizations may need to include in their overall digital marketing.
Do you work on traditional paid search, content marketing, digital PR, are those areas that you also help clients out with or is it really just the SEO end of things?
Oscar Scolding (36:09.004)
Yeah, great question. Yeah, we do go a little bit wider as well. So we kind of label ourselves as a search agency. So if it's in the search engines, that's where we can help get you found.
So SEO, course, is a big part of that. Content marketing, again, is a big part of SEO that feeds into everything that we do. But then, as you mentioned, it kind of comes also with the paid channels, Google Ads, we do some meta ads and that sort of thing as well. Again, it's still in the search results. And then also, again, as you mentioned very kindly, digital PR.
That's a really cool one actually as well. It's kind of the bridge between traditional SEO and traditional PR. And it's kind of building out these kind really reactive campaigns to build a lot of links. We've got some really cool results for some of our clients doing that kind of work as well. And it's really good, yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (37:02.757)
So for anyone listening to the podcast that obviously wants to separate themselves out from the pack, we're going to leave a link in the show notes so people can reach out to you. But if you were to leave a couple of bullet points for people to, you know, kind of sleep on or maybe take action on, what are some of the things that you see in the year 2025 that you think you're seeing your clients do that is helping them?
kind of separate themselves out from their competitors.
Oscar Scolding (37:34.754)
Yeah, great question again. So I mentioned it little bit earlier as well. SEO is very much moving into search everywhere.
What that means is kind of traditional SEO, optimizing websites, creating content for your website and that sort of thing. Still very, very important. But the brands that are gonna act in quickest with the search everywhere stuff are gonna be the ones that win over the next couple of years. Just to explain, I guess what that means. Again, this is looking at kind of the non-traditional search engines, right? So as we mentioned, chat GBT, that's also TikTok, that's Instagram, that's YouTube search.
and everything in between. the content that you produce for your business, well, first of all, you need to understand where your target audience is spending their time. Of course, they're going to be spending time on these other channels and you'd actually be really surprised at where they do as well. TikTok, for instance, I don't have TikTok. I've never owned TikTok. It doesn't really feel like the right social channel for me. However, there's a real, real use case for B2B businesses posting on TikTok. And there's actually a lot of
Michael Bernzweig (38:34.981)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (38:42.66)
search demand as well. a lot of where we steer our clients to go now is kind of just rethinking the content strategies that they're putting together. And what that means is again, the traditional content strategies for SEO were like written content, like blogs and guides and articles and interviews and that sort of thing. But it's very much more so now moving to video content and short form content as well. Things such as podcasts, such as
Michael Bernzweig (39:04.773)
Yeah. And I'd agree with you on Tik Tok. Yeah. Absolutely. There's a lot of organizations. I mean, you you name it, everyone from Salesforce to HubSpot to all kinds of other organizations in the B2B space, finding success on, Tik Tok. And we actually, launched our Tik Tok channel a while ago, but literally in our
our first week on TikTok, had somewhere around 150,000 views on our videos out of the gate. So, I I think there's definitely a lot of individuals and organizations on TikTok. know, everyone thinks about the kid on TikTok posting videos, but...
Oscar Scolding (39:33.368)
Amazing, yeah.
Michael Bernzweig (39:48.365)
I think there is an absolute segment of B2B on TikTok. And that's actually an interesting point that I wanted to cover before we go. From businesses that you see finding success on TikTok and connecting with B2B audiences, because that is the media audience that listens to the podcasts, what do you find them doing that is moving the needle on TikTok for them?
Oscar Scolding (39:53.868)
Yep. Yep, yep, yep.
Oscar Scolding (40:17.902)
Yeah, of course. One of the first things that we do to find these like TikTok and like short form video opportunities. So there's a tool that anyone listening can use as well. It's called keyword tool.io. It's very cool. This is one of the first kind of keyword tools.
that actually goes across multiple search engines as well. So within this, you can search for a service, let's just assume CRM provider for instance. You can see what the search demand is in Google. You can see all the different variations and what people are looking for and what's most popular in Google. Again, that's always kind of how it's been. But then you can also see the same demand in...
Michael Bernzweig (40:48.943)
Sure.
Oscar Scolding (41:01.654)
other search engines as well. So this is things like Reddit and TikTok and everything else. So it's really cool because actually this, what exactly, right? So you've got full data. Again, it's not, you're not assuming what people are gonna be looking for. This is data led, right? And this is really powerful. So.
Michael Bernzweig (41:08.121)
finding your keywords across all of these channels.
Michael Bernzweig (41:17.903)
Yeah, so doing the research to figure out where your people are.
Oscar Scolding (41:22.827)
Exactly, exactly. So one of the first things we do when we're building a client is look at that, right? Actually find out where people are spending their time, where their target audience is spending their time, to then build a strategy around that.
When it comes to the short form content, so again, it needs to be data led. What's really interesting is that typically what people are searching for on TikTok is quite different from what people are searching on Google. There's different commercial intent behind it. There's different intent behind it in general. So it's really important to again, base it on the data and just really kind of create great content there as well. There's SEO factors that come into play when even creating video content as well. So what TikTok looks for.
It's probably one of the best search engines in the world in terms of fairness, still. As you mentioned, within a week, you've got 150,000 views, right?
Michael Bernzweig (42:11.023)
Yeah, I mean, just actually off the charts. And I think it's interesting. You look at some of the tools that I'm sure everyone's using, Moz and Ahrefs and the like. And I think, you know, it's not that long ago that literally they just started showing.
what is the intent of this search and, you know, kind of looking at those metrics. And I think, you know, in the early days, I think it wasn't even on anybody's radar as to what was the intent of the search. And I think it ties all the way back to your conversion rate and optimizing and, you know, picking the keywords to invest your time in and your money.
that are going to drive the right results for what you're looking to achieve. So it's amazing. I know we could cover this all day long and probably make multiple episodes out of all of this, but I really appreciate your time and deep dive into a very valuable and important area in SEO. So with that, I...
Really appreciate your joining us on the Career Spotlight today. Hopefully we've touched one listener today that will wake up in the morning and say, I know what I want to do. So, Oscar Scolding with SEO Sherpa. I really appreciate your joining us on the Career Spotlight today.
Oscar Scolding (43:26.606)
Fingers crossed.
Oscar Scolding (43:34.38)
Likewise, Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure. to be here.